tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post4336430643357094165..comments2024-01-02T15:37:04.858-05:00Comments on Caravana de recuerdos: Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American WestRichardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01746599416342846897noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-91840477200135300022011-01-29T20:20:43.470-05:002011-01-29T20:20:43.470-05:00*Stefanie: Good to hear--hope those men in your li...*Stefanie: Good to hear--hope those men in your life enjoy the book!Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01746599416342846897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-74284049900531652502011-01-28T13:58:45.007-05:002011-01-28T13:58:45.007-05:00This sounds like a good book and my husband has re...This sounds like a good book and my husband has recently become interested in reading history and my father-in-law loves books like this. I will have to tell them both about it!Stefaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14943596258182968212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-75146289091513988712011-01-25T13:01:10.237-05:002011-01-25T13:01:10.237-05:00*Emily: I think that's a great point you make ...*Emily: I think that's a great point you make about finding the right balance. While I tend to prefer academic to popular histories these days, sometimes the professional histories sacrifice "appealing writing" to presentation of their argument for an insider audience and other times the popular histories sacrifice challenging argumentation in favor of a dumbed-down narrative arc for mainstream audiences. Not everyone can write like Edward Gibbon, I guess, eh, Oregon Girl? :DRichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01746599416342846897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-87627670624720648702011-01-24T15:42:48.264-05:002011-01-24T15:42:48.264-05:00As an Oregon girl with a similarly patchy understa...As an Oregon girl with a similarly patchy understanding of this history and a similar interest in learning more, this post and the ensuing comments have been super intriguing and helpful! And while I'm know what you mean about authors who've never met an anecdote they didn't need to pass on, I guess I'd take that over historians who are too dry. So hard to hit the perfect balance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-5610369715076487622011-01-24T09:23:42.946-05:002011-01-24T09:23:42.946-05:00*Amateur Reader: Thanks very much for the great su...*Amateur Reader: Thanks very much for the great suggestions--and in annotated bibliography format at that! Have to say that this type of exchange is one of my favorite parts about blogging. And the other nice thing is that the Josephy book was the only one of the three I had on my radar, though I'm not sure why I didn't think about the Caitlin. "Stop writing books about Custer!" = classic advice, ha ha!<br /><br />*Amanda: I love history, and I think I prob. read more nonfiction than fiction before I started blogging. Not sure what happened to me since then--peer pressure?<br />Anyway, I think Sides' book is a good example of popular history for readers who don't usually care for history in part because the events he's writing about are so inherently juicy (if often depressing). He's a good writer, too, as others have mentioned in the comments above.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01746599416342846897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-6911435887224552622011-01-23T20:39:17.972-05:002011-01-23T20:39:17.972-05:00That does sound like an interesting book. I haven&...That does sound like an interesting book. I haven't really been much of a history reader (despite the fact that I do often enjoy a good historical tale--fiction OR non), and it's easy to stick with what I learned in school. It's clear, however that there are so many lesser known stories that really illuminate precisely where the US comes from. Not to mention so many stories that are just plain fascinating.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-86310827429068535902011-01-23T16:46:09.283-05:002011-01-23T16:46:09.283-05:00Two - no, three - recommendations. The theme is &...Two - no, three - recommendations. The theme is "Books that do not have to be read all the way through."<br /><br /><i>The Patriot Chiefs</i> by Alvin Josephy is a series of vignettes of Indian resistance. You could easily skip the non-Western chapters. The chapter on Popé and the Pueblo uprising is jaw-dropping; the Chief Joseph chapter is excellent, too, although these are, what do I mean, <i>very easy</i> stories to make interesting.<br /><br />George Catlin's 1841 account of his career painting the portraits of Native Americans was a revelation to me. He takes the culture, the humanity, of the Indians he meets completely seriously, inventing cultural anthropology from scratch. The first half, his trip up the Missouri and life with the Mandan, is key. The second half or volume of the book is more episodic, and not as good, although his encounter with the Comanche is pretty interesting.<br /><br /><i>Sacagawea's Nickname</i>, Larry McMurtry. I've read parts of this. It's a book of essays (book reviews) from the New York Review of Books. I read about that Comanche book, for example, in a McMurtry piece (not in this book). Good book to use to catch up on a topic; no need to read it all. I hope a second volume comes out some day - not so long ago he had a piece about books about Custer that was brutal. "Stop writing books about Custer!" was the premise.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-90342406379778185202011-01-23T10:10:09.142-05:002011-01-23T10:10:09.142-05:00*Emily Jane: This book is certainly a less expensi...*Emily Jane: This book is certainly a less expensive way to (re)visit the Southwest than a plane ticket, but now it's putting semi-expensive travel ideas in my head! Got any suggestions for me as a onetime southwesterner yourself?<br /><br />*C.B. James: Ha ha, I guess I was the only one out of the three of us who didn't fall under the spell of President Polk's charms! On a more serious note, I think you make a fine point about complexity + moral ambiguity making history more interesting (and probably more accurate).<br /><br />*Amateur Reader: I'd love to hear your recommendations, but [sheepish pause] my rather unfocused "plan" for the year is to start exploring all the things you mention! I've actually been collecting a list of titles for an ongoing Native American reading project I want to undertake (partially inspired by your Cahokia and Comanche posts a couple of years back), but the Southwest, the frontier, Californian history, and the West in general are also in play as subjects of interest. Would appreciate any recommendations you care to make on any of the above. Are you familiar with Colin G. Calloway's <em>One Vast Winter Count: The Native American West before Lewis and Clark</em> (University of Nebraska Press, 2003)? That's one of the touchstone new histories I plan on reading along with the Weber book I mentioned to E.L. Fay. Anyway, thanks in advance for any bibliographical assistance you care to render--I know it'll be good!Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01746599416342846897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-28802937856312038682011-01-23T09:41:08.270-05:002011-01-23T09:41:08.270-05:00*Jill: Although I agree with you that Sides is def...*Jill: Although I agree with you that Sides is definitely an entertaining writer, I thought the book was pretty clear that Carson was both for and against the Native Americans depending on the circumstances. At the very least, it would be hard to defend many of his actions towards them even if others were worse in that regard. Anyway, I thought about you while reading this book and envy you your proximity to so many of the places portrayed within it. How lucky you must be--despite having Bristol Palin as a new neighbor, ha!<br /><br />*E.L. Fay: Yes and no. That is, Sides talks about such things but maybe not as much as I would have liked given his focus on other aspects of the story he wanted to present (this is more an attempt at an explanation rather than a criticism on my part). And Santa Fe gets a lot of play as a locus for events that take place, of course. Anyhow, David J. Weber's <em>The Spanish Frontier in North America</em> (Yale University Press, 1992) is a book I've been eyeing that will hopefully add a "corrective" dimension to some of the "British-centric" history you mention here. Such a vast topic!<br /><br />*Kevin: Thanks, that's very kind, especially coming from you! On the California thing, I grew up in L.A. and on the Central Coast and last lived out in the Ventura, Oxnard, and Port Hueneme area before heading to New England where the weather and lack of decent Mexican food are slowly killing my spirits. You live in the Bay Area, right? How totally fortunate--cheers!Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01746599416342846897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-52305474142315338262011-01-23T00:42:25.475-05:002011-01-23T00:42:25.475-05:00You probably have a full list from the bibliograph...You probably have a full list from the bibliography, but I have a few recommendations, if you want them. Is the plan for the year relatively focused - Southwest, Native American, the frontier, or whatever - or more general - the West?Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-34916249138555227492011-01-22T19:17:55.130-05:002011-01-22T19:17:55.130-05:00I'm agreement with both you and Rhapsodyinbook...I'm agreement with both you and Rhapsodyinbooks. I also meant to pursue more information about Pres. Polk as well and didn't.<br /><br />I also think Mr. Sides does go on a bit too long, but this book is well worth a read. <br /><br />It's a shame that this level of complexity and this type of moral ambiguity gets left out of the history books so often, because it's exactly what makes history so interesting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906212382849291562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-39822832665725722282011-01-22T18:14:25.646-05:002011-01-22T18:14:25.646-05:00I'm from the southwest myself and share an int...I'm from the southwest myself and share an interest in this history--thanks for the review, this book certainly catches my attention.Emily Janehttp://www.bookedallweek.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-62308695860466303962011-01-22T17:13:13.256-05:002011-01-22T17:13:13.256-05:00Hi Richard, what part of CA? Very quickly, I'd...Hi Richard, what part of CA? Very quickly, I'd like to congratulate you on a fine post, in particular, a finely written post. You're one of two or maybe three bloggers who often make me feel, through no fault of your own, my own glaring defiencies as a cobbler together of letters and words. Cheers, KInterpolationshttp://interpolations.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-17411932067460869562011-01-22T17:10:10.649-05:002011-01-22T17:10:10.649-05:00Does the book talk much about the Hispanic civiliz...Does the book talk much about the Hispanic civilization of the Southwest? Santa Fe was already an established city when the Pilgrims were just arriving in Massachusetts. It's really unfortunate that we get taught history from a British-centric perspective, which claims that the West was this empty space with only a few "primitive" tribes here and there.Eileenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11058705381647529328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911087927983597831.post-79697321933785642612011-01-22T13:35:26.809-05:002011-01-22T13:35:26.809-05:00I think Sides is a very entertaining writer. I lo...I think Sides is a very entertaining writer. I loved the line: "As the forerunners of Western civilization, creeping up the river valleys and across the mountain passes, the trappers brought smallpox and typhoid, they brought guns and whiskey and venereal disease, they brought the puzzlement of money and the gleam of steel." (Hard to imagine writing "civilization" with no "[sic]" after it!) I also liked the attention to the Polk presidency. He's sort of a forgotten president but Sides got me quite interested in pursuing more info about him (and then I promptly forgot about it). I guess there's still a lot of controversy over Carson: was he actually trying to help protect the Native Americans, or was he complicit? The book argues the former, which is why one can see 50 million copies of it in Taos. But there have been a lot of critical reviews of this book by believers in the latter. It was a horrible situation, either way.rhapsodyinbookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07041412748239010264noreply@blogger.com